Standing the Test of Time
An Interview with Ruth Salzmann
By Arthur J. Schwartz

This is one in an occasional series of interviews with longtime CAS members. AR staff writer Arthur Schwartz spoke with 1978 CAS president, Ruth Salzmann, on her illustrious actuarial career.

Arthur Schwartz: Were you the first female president of an actuarial organization?
Ruth Salzmann: I was the first female president of a North American actuarial organization and almost the first female president in the world. The CAS had a system that elected you to the president-elect position for one year; then the president-elect would become president the following year. There was a European actuarial organization that chose presidents from a small group voting among themselves-maybe ten or twelve people voting-and they did choose a woman who took office before I was sworn in as CAS president.

AS: Please describe your career path.
RS: I became an Associate in '46 and Fellow in '47. I graduated the University of Wisconsin in 1940 and began with Hardware Mutual, which later changed its name to Sentry. I started as an actuarial assistant under Doc Masterson. I was sent to Chicago as a payroll auditor, then was asked to come back to Stevens Point to set up Sentry's first actuarial department and head it up. In 1959 I went with Insurance Company of North America. I worked for Longley-Cook at INA in the reinsurance unit. Doc retired and Sentry asked me to come back in '69. It was the financial aspects of actuarial work that seemed the most interesting. I retired in '84 as executive vice president and actuary. I've been retired twenty-one years and it's great!

AS: How did you hear about the profession?
RS: That's a good question because the profession in the Forties was almost completely unknown. My first two years in college were actually spent at a state teacher college. In my second year, a physics professor who knew me and who knew I liked math and business asked, "Have you thought of becoming an actuary?" I'd never heard of this career, but this brief exchange did stick in my mind. I majored in accounting and statistics with a minor in math. I was the only woman accounting major; I thought I would need it for a career in business. When I became a senior and was about to graduate, I could not get any employers to interview me, as they did not hire women in business in those days. While I was in the university placement office, I noticed an ad for an actuarial research assistant, and bells went off. I remembered that brief conversation with my physics professor. So I asked them to put my name in. They said, "They want someone who has a strong background in math." I said, "Well that's something I certainly have!" The interview was set up, and I took the position.

I was not encouraged to take the actuarial exams. In those days most employers figured a woman only wanted to get married and then would be a stay-at-home wife and mother. It was a male world. So my employer did not give me any study time for exams, and did not pay my exam fees. I took the exams on my own time and at my own expense. No one else in the company was taking the exams and there was no actuarial department.

I worked for Doc Masterson who was an FCAS and quite distinguished in the profession. Yet even he did not encourage me to take the exams. I simply started studying for them on my own. At that time there were five Associate exams and three Fellow exams.

I was one of the first women to become a Fellow by examination. There were only about four women in the CAS total. We all gathered at the CAS meetings, and held an informal "coffee klatch."

AS: Did you have any difficulties as a woman moving up in the CAS or the corporate world?
RS: I had no difficulty moving up in the corporate world. Once you'd passed your exams you had earned your stripes and people treated you with the same respect as a man.

I recall one humorous anecdote. At INA I became their first female officer. They had a cafeteria for the rank and file and two dining rooms for the officers. The personnel officer asked where I wanted to eat. I said, "If I am entitled to eat in one of the dining rooms, then let's go!" It wasn't so easy because many of the men were uneasy to have lunch with a woman. I asked a friend where I should sit. He invited me to one of the dining rooms saying, "We took a vote and this room had the least negative votes!"

I was a willing participant in the CAS committees and very active in the annual statement and any other topics where there was a financial aspect of things. I eventually was asked by the nominating committee to run for the council (that was the predecessor to the board of directors). They put my name up for vice president and I was elected!

The only obstacle I recall in moving up in the CAS was in finding the ladies washroom! Some CAS meetings were held at Union Leagues where women were traditionally not allowed. To find the restroom, I actually had to sneak out a side door!

AS: Are there any research areas that the CAS can continue to study?
RS: I have always thought Schedule P should show a prospective evaluation of reserves. I asked Dick Roth why they discontinued this. He said with computers we can better determine reserves today. That's an area that the CAS may want to reconsider.

Now everyone's buzzing about "reasonable ranges" of reserves rather than a point estimate, yet there's one constant-industry reserves have never been adequate! The CAS could do a test of the long-term runoff of industry reserves.

Another area (and I know this is heresy) is the talk about associating more with the SOA. I actually think it would be better to be separate and associate more with the CPAs. The property casualty business is closer to accounting than to the life business. It was actually wrong that the CAS called their liabilities "reserves," which follows the life actuarial terminology. In business, profits are revenues less the cost of goods sold, less changes in inventories. In the property casualty industry, profits are the premiums less claims paid plus changes in the "inventory" of unpaid claims.

AS: How important do you think it is to have a mentor?
RS: I never really had a mentor. However, I have mentored others. I don't know how satisfying it is to be a mentor; it depends on the person you're mentoring. I liked giving strong advice on direction and effort and ethics, an open discussion if you will.

Wherever I went I was respected for my high ethical standards. I was always known to set reserves too high! One time we had a meeting with the underwriters who came to the home office. Their performance was partly based on their reserves-estimates, which derived partly from their own judgment and partly from reserve dollars that were "assigned" by the home office (ultimately me). At the meeting with underwriters, one fellow ambled over and scrutinized my nametag. "R. Salzmann," he said, "All we hear in the field is 'G-D Salzmann!'"

AS: Please accept my thanks for a wonderful discussion of your career and best wishes for your continued happy retirement!