RE: Third Grade Math

mary.kroggel@ins.state.oh.us
Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:51:09 -0500

--0__=hBZ0jHk5HDNzdpOXPeTEorfRkbAd1VGt0nhRucm6dERXp5JNMW3Sy3bp
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

I've taken this as long as I can. I will try not to stay on my soapbox for
too long. The way the problem is written there is no interpretation
involved. It can be rewritten to give the intended answers. 24/3 + 5 can
not be interpreted to be
24/(3+5). The problem is that too many elementary teachers do not
understand basic mathematics. Many are elem. teachers(especially K-3)
because they wanted to touch as little math as possible. They pass this
along to their students who then give up on math themselves and so it goes.
Once they get to 9th or even 7th grade, it is almost impossible to teach
them the basics because they think they already know them. The elem. math
textbooks are atrocious. Even a conscientious teacher who understands the
basic principles would have to create their own handouts, etc. to
counteract the tools they have at their diposal and the misconceptions kids
bring from their previous teachers. I had a 5th grade teacher tell my
child that 27/6 was, as a decimal, 4.3. (4R3=4.3 not the 4.5 my child put
on her paper) Until we value education as a nation, I don't see much hope
for improvement.

Brenda Reddick <breddick@busca.bm> on 10/28/98 01:52:55 PM

To: "'Ruhm, David'" <David.Ruhm@AIG.com>, casnet@lists.casact.org
cc: (bcc: Mary Kroggel/OFRS/INS)

Subject: RE: Third Grade Math

--0__=hBZ0jHk5HDNzdpOXPeTEorfRkbAd1VGt0nhRucm6dERXp5JNMW3Sy3bp
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Fascinating. I've always wondered why so many of the high school and
college kids I've tutored have no concept of what "equals" means. I'd
love to hear why they're commonly taught this way.=A0 Any ideas?

-Brenda Reddick

-----Original Message-----
From: Ruhm, David [mailto:David.Ruhm@AIG.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 1:30 PM
To: casnet@lists.casact.org
Subject: RE: Third Grade Math

Diamond is 78.=A0 Apply each operation consecutively to get the rest,
i.e., Circle =3D 40, Square =3D 440, Triangle =3D 88, Hexagon =3D 115, =
Oval =3D
230, Star =3D 211.=A0 This type of sequential equation phrasing (produc=
ing a
result that follows an equals sign, and then applying an operation) is
commonly practiced in grade-school and high-school math, and does not
represent a chain of equalities. - David Ruhm

-----Original Message-----
From:=A0=A0 Andr=E9 Perez [SMTP:aperez@busca.bm]
Sent:=A0=A0 Wednesday, October 28, 1998 11:55 AM
To:=A0=A0=A0=A0 'Richard.W.Nichols@travelers.com'; casnet@lists.casact.=
org
Subject:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 RE: Third Grade Math

Unless there's a trick, this is what I come up with:

Star: 211
Oval: 230
Hexagon: 105.5
Triangle: 184
Square: 1,055
Circle: about 19.20
Diamond: 249

Am I missing something, or do I need to redo Part 1 ?!!!

Andre Perez

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard.W.Nichols@travelers.com
[ mailto:Richard.W.Nichols@travelers.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 12:29 PM
To: casnet@lists.casact.org
Subject: Third Grade Math

The following problem was presented to a group of third
graders.=A0 I have
a solution from the teacher that I disagree with.=A0 I thought I would
pose the problem to a group of mathematics professionals and see if
anyone comes up with the teachers answer.

I will state the problem twice as I am not sure how these things
will
translate in the various e-mail systems.

In words:
Diamond minus 38 equals Circle times 11 equals Square divided by 5
equals Triangle plus 27 equals Hexagon times 2 equals Oval minus 19
equals Star.=A0 Star equals 211.=A0 What number should replace each sha=
pe.

In symbols:
diamond - 38 =3D circle x 11 =3D square /5 =3D triangle +27 =3D hexagon=
x 2 =3D
oval - 19 =3D star
Star =3D 211.=A0 What number should replace each shape.

Visit the CAS Web Site at http://www.casact.org
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
To subscribe or unsubscribe from CASNET:
Send an e-mail to caslists@lists.casact.org
Type in the body join casnet to subscribe
or leave casnet to unsubscribe.

Visit the CAS Web Site at http://www.casact.org
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
To subscribe or unsubscribe from CASNET:
Send an e-mail to caslists@lists.casact.org
Type in the body join casnet to subscribe
or leave casnet to unsubscribe.

Visit the CAS Web Site at http://www.casact.org
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DTo=
subscribe or unsubscribe from CASNET:
Send an e-mail to caslists@lists.casact.org
Type in the body join casnet to subscribe
or leave casnet to unsubscribe.

=

--0__=hBZ0jHk5HDNzdpOXPeTEorfRkbAd1VGt0nhRucm6dERXp5JNMW3Sy3bp
Content-type: application/octet-stream;
name="att1.eml"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="att1.eml"
Content-transfer-encoding: base64
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--0__=hBZ0jHk5HDNzdpOXPeTEorfRkbAd1VGt0nhRucm6dERXp5JNMW3Sy3bp--

Visit the CAS Web Site at http://www.casact.org
===============================================
To subscribe or unsubscribe from CASNET:
Send an e-mail to caslists@lists.casact.org
Type in the body join casnet to subscribe
or leave casnet to unsubscribe.